Least favorite gal and why?

[dutch]

Hi folks, I know there is a thread for who's your favorite. But I thought in an effort to breath a little life back into the forum I'd take a different approach. Of the ladies in the game that we know, who would you be least interested in and why? Now before you get all agitated this might reveal things to Wolf about the personalities or at least the way we perceive them which could be helpful too him. At worst we waste a little time. At best maybe we help make this project a tiny bit better!

[infiniteignorance]

This is not an objective question. The answer is always going to come down to personal biases and preferences. What could I possibly say here that would make Wolfschadowe decide my vision of any of the girls is better than his vision? "She sucks! Change her!" Wait. I mean, "She sucks! Don't change her!"

[Wolfschadowe]

This is an interesting question. It's not because I want to change anything about the characters, but it gives positive insight to the characterization. If the likes or dislikes are focused only on appearance, then it means the characters are too shallow. On the other hand, if the likes and dislikes are also including personality traits, then it helps me gauge the depth of the characters. If people are liking or disliking characters for the "right" reasons, that means I'm doing the storytelling properly.

To clarify what I mean by liking or disliking for the "right" reasons, I'm not saying that it is right or wrong to dislike a specific trait, but rather that the trait that is liked or disliked is actually a trait I intend the character to have. Also, it's an interesting discussion overall, so long as we respect each other's likes or dislikes. The stronger the like, or dislike that there is for characters, the better storytelling is happening. The ideal is if every character is liked by some and disliked by others in this situation.

As an example, using fake names to avoid spoilers (bear with me for this potentially painful exchange):
Person A: I don't like how Sally breaks down under stress and panics easily, that's a big turn off to me. I like how Pamela is confident and secure under pressure.
Person B: I don't like confident women as much, I feel useless. I'm more into Sally because she needs protection and I can be her hero!

An example of where I make changes is when players talk about a character being arrogant when I don't intend the character to be arrogant. That means I'm made a characterization mistake somewhere that needs fixed. That's also why getting reports of the ladies acing out of character are also useful.

[dutch]

Thank you, That's kind of what I was hoping for. I thought it would be interesting.

[infiniteignorance]

OK. If you really want to hear opinions then I'll say N's story line makes the least logical sense for a number of reasons, the primary one being that no one who is a lesbian is going to become bisexual by virtue of working at a gentleman's club. A lesbian is not going to work at a gentleman's club and is certainly not going to perform private dances at one. She isn't going to be persuaded by white knight chivalry or anything else.

It would have made far more logical sense for her to have been bisexual and on a serious anti-male binge for some reason than for her to be screaming bout how gay she is one minute and doing things that prove she isn't minutes or days later. I don't dislike this character in terms of physical attributes. Quite the opposite. But her back story makes by far the least sense. Having said that, what's done is done. I'm not losing sleep over it and neither should anyone else.

Is she my least favorite? Let's see. E? She seems pretty true to her character. A? She's creepy but I suspect that's part of something of a plot to be named later. F? Unpredictable, and that's what I would expect. J? Totally in character, the girl you with want to protect or risk jail time for. S? Really too little is known about her to comment. L and M we know nothing about as of yet.

I guess N seems more to me like a plot device than a romanceable character. I just don't feel like converting a lesbian in less than a week is plausible to any realistic scenario. It would be like converting a nun, and that doesn't happen either. Trust me. I've tried. So, if I have to pick one I guess N is it.

[Wolfschadowe]

Actually, It's a great reply.

A lesbian is not going to work at a gentleman's club and is certainly not going to perform private dances at one.

Not trying to be snippy here, but Why not? Girls don't like to watch girls dance sometimes? A lesbian can't do the job and entertain guys without being attracted to them?

She isn't going to be persuaded by white knight chivalry or anything else.

I agree with this, and so does the overall story. Nothing is going to change Natalie from what she is. Same as anyone who is lesbian or gay or any of the other 70+ terms that seem to have been invented in the last couple of years will not change from what they are into something else.

But her back story makes by far the least sense. Having said that, what's done is done.

We haven't gotten into her backstory yet. You are actually in about the "right place" so to speak, for our point in Natalie's storyline, although I'd hoped to set the undercurrents of Natalie's story a bit better by now.

Could be a spoiler, but a light one. Just threw the following into spoiler tags in case anyone out there want's to avoid any potential spoiler:

spoiler: show

I just don't feel like converting a lesbian in less than a week is plausible to any realistic scenario.

It's not. Not in real life, and not in the game either. Not in less than a week. Not in a lifetime. Consider in the BEW universe, and also probably in real life, the scale is not Trinary (i.e. it's not just straight/bi/gay) but an analog scale. One can be "Totally straight" or "Totally gay" sure, or mostly gay, mostly straight, fully bi, or whatever gradients in between all of them. There's also concepts of short-term infatuation, platonic love, experimentation, knowing oneself, and wanting to please someone cared about. I suspect Natalie's full story might surprise many people.

[dutch]

spoiler: show

I may as well add my 2 cents worth. Of the girls so far we've had exposure too. (No pun intended there) Only 4 or 5 do I have an opinion on so far.

J. is very young, and can be playful at times. But the age difference could be a real problem for Brad. I don't know her full character yet but so far so good.

E. Is a good solid character, she's pretty realistic in actions and I'd put her near the top of the list. Perhaps not as erotic as others but still very interesting in her own way.

F. Probably the most erotic of the ladies so far. But with all the time we've had with her she's still reserved and unknown in character. I think there is much more there then we have seen so far. I have high hopes for her character arc to fill out, I see her as a major player in Brad's story.

N. She presents as a major interest for Brad, but so far her character has been pretty limited. She hasn't really developed yet I guess. There is the back story with A. which helps. But without that her character would be flat and one dimensional. Of all the character so far she's the one I'd say I'm least interested in.

A. I find her the most interesting character so far. Her special abilities while odd make her interesting. Now her relationship to N. adds to her character a bit. But there is much of her story we don't know. Could be very interesting. One point I'll touch on, she has a temper but only when provoked, But oddly enough may not do well under pressure? So her temper could get her into real trouble as actions may not be well thought out.

So Nat as my least favorite and E and A as my most favorite. Even though the two of them couldn't possibly be more different. Not basing this on looks, just actions and things said through out the story. I fully understand these characters aren't fully developed and much can change as we go. But that's just a "snap shot" of what I'm thinking as of now.

[ajb419]

[/spoiler]

I may as well add my 2 cents worth. Of the girls so far we've had exposure too. (No pun intended there) Only 4 or 5 do I have an opinion on so far.

J. is very young, and can be playful at times. But the age difference could be a real problem for Brad. I don't know her full character yet but so far so good.

E. Is a good solid character, she's pretty realistic in actions and I'd put her near the top of the list. Perhaps not as erotic as others but still very interesting in her own way.

F. Probably the most erotic of the ladies so far. But with all the time we've had with her she's still reserved and unknown in character. I think there is much more there then we have seen so far. I have high hopes for her character arc to fill out, I see her as a major player in Brad's story.

N. She presents as a major interest for Brad, but so far her character has been pretty limited. She hasn't really developed yet I guess. There is the back story with A. which helps. But without that her character would be flat and one dimensional. Of all the character so far she's the one I'd say I'm least interested in.

A. I find her the most interesting character so far. Her special abilities while odd make her interesting. Now her relationship to N. adds to her character a bit. But there is much of her story we don't know. Could be very interesting. One point I'll touch on, she has a temper but only when provoked, But oddly enough may not do well under pressure? So her temper could get her into real trouble as actions may not be well thought out.

So Nat as my least favorite and E and A as my most favorite. Even though the two of them couldn't possibly be more different. Not basing this on looks, just actions and things said through out the story. I fully understand these characters aren't fully developed and much can change as we go. But that's just a "snap shot" of what I'm thinking as of now.

JEFNA

[infiniteignorance]

Not trying to be snippy here, but Why not? Girls don't like to watch girls dance sometimes? A lesbian can't do the job and entertain guys without being attracted to them?

The way this was explained to me by my former girlfriend who worked at a gentleman's club is that guys always seem to think they can convert lesbians, even after they are told it's not happening. Guys at the clubs always seem to think they're the one who can succeed where others have failed. I'm neither lesbian (impossible) nor gay but I can certainly see where that would get tiresome. It would be like someone trying to convert me to homosexuality at a gay bar. It would never happen.

[infiniteignorance]

N. She presents as a major interest for Brad, but so far her character has been pretty limited. She hasn't really developed yet I guess. There is the back story with A. which helps. But without that her character would be flat and one dimensional. Of all the character so far she's the one I'd say I'm least interested in.

I find it interesting that as much as we sometimes clash on opinions we find the same character the least appealing thus far. I guess there is some truth to her story being underdeveloped. I thought that was just my opinion. And your as well, apparently.

[Wolfschadowe]

The way this was explained to me by my former girlfriend who worked at a gentleman's club is that guys always seem to think they can convert lesbians, even after they are told it's not happening.

This I believe completely. Guys are idiots. (speaking as a guy.)
While there will be an option to try this in the game....

spoiler: show

It will not work and will not lead to a good outcome for Brad if he is enough of an idiot to think it's possible, but might be entertaining to watch for some ladies, at least my sister loved it...

Fun Fact?: I have two brothers and three sisters. One of my brothers is gay (think Nathan Lane in the Birdcage, he's essentially a breast! Love ya bro!), and one sister is lesbian. So, the good news is that our holiday dinners balance out (boy/girl, boy/girl, boy/boy, girl/girl, boy/girl, boy/girl) heh. More relevant, I ran the stories involving same sex interactions by both early on and got thumbs up. Unfortunately, I can't check in on the Natalie story with my sister any more as she died a few years ago due to cancer. So that means there is potential for me to still screw Natalie's stories up somehow in the implementation, but the general ideas are sound.

Changing gears, a little bit, here's a blueprint on the purpose of relevant scenes. This might clarify a bit where we are in stories. This is not a complete list for each scene, or for all scenes in the game:

Spoilers about scene purpose, don't read too much into them as I left a lot out and focus on story elements only...:

spoiler: show

• Wednesday:
  • D1T1Intro - Introduce Brad (ordinary world stage)
  • D1T2Office - Introduce Emily
  • D1T3Bar - Introduce Faith (Pre Emily) | Emily main story introduction
  • D1T3StripClub - Introduce Natalie and Azumi
  • D1T4Diner - Natalie main story introduction
  • D1T4Taxi - Azumi main story introduction
  • D1T5Home - Azumi main story | Additional Azumi stories introduced.
• Thursday released:
  • D2T1Coffee - Setting up call to adventure
  • D2T2Office - Morning; Introduce Jasmine. Afternoon: Emily main story | Other Emily stories introduced.
  • D2T3Home - Decision junction
  • D2T4EmilyApartment - Emily stories
  • D2T4Campus - Additional Natalie stories introduced | Additional Azumi stories introduced (unreleased)
• Thursday unreleased (not all listed):
  • D2T5Bar - Faith main story |Faith stories + new introduced | Emily additional stories introduced
  • D2T5StripClub - Natalie stories | Additional Natalie stories introduced | Azumi Stories + new | Faith Stories + new | Emily new stories introduced
  • D2T5DanceClub - Jasmine stories introduced
  • D2T5Dinner - Emily Stories
  • D2T6NatalieDate - Natalie stories
  • D2T6Jail - Emily stories
  • D2T6Taxi - Faith Stories
  • D2T6Hotel - Faith stories
  • D2T7+ - A small focus scene for each active story.
• Friday Unreleased (not all listed):
  • D3T1Coffee - Serenthia introduction | (call to adventure stage)
  • D3T2[redacted] - Lorien introduction
  • D3T3[redacted] - Muirgheal introduction | Faith stories
  • D3T* - More scenes and stories focused on Serenthia/Lorien/Muirgheal

So what's the point I'm making here? Basically, each character has phases going from character introduction -> story introduction -> multiple story progression. Character introduction in this context means learning about the personality, not to be confused with the existence of the character. Until the multiple story progression phase starts, we only have a "first impression" view of the character, even if they are around during other story progressions. Of all eight characters, three are not yet introduced (Serenthia, Lorien, Muirgheal), three are at first impressions (Faith, Natalie, Jasmine), and two are in story progression (Azumi, Emily)

In other words, the two most "liked" characters are the two in story progression phase, based on the few responses so far. While it's a limited data set, it tells me that I'm right on track with the characterization of all the characters, and a bit ahead of the curve on Jasmine. That's incredibly valuable feedback for me.

[infiniteignorance]

So what's the point I'm making here? Basically, each character has phases going from character introduction -> story introduction -> multiple story progression. Character introduction in this context means learning about the personality, not to be confused with the existence of the character. Until the multiple story progression phase starts, we only have a "first impression" view of the character, even if they are around during other story progressions. Of all eight characters, three are not yet introduced (Serenthia, Lorien, Muirgheal), three are at first impressions (Faith, Natalie, Jasmine), and two are in story progression (Azumi, Emily)

In other words, the two most "liked" characters are the two in story progression phase, based on the few responses so far. While it's a limited data set, it tells me that I'm right on track with the characterization of all the characters, and a bit ahead of the curve on Jasmine. That's incredibly valuable feedback for me.

This all makes a lot of sense. I think part of the "problem" is we have had a lot of time to overthink the relationships based upon only what we know.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I would wish that on no one.

And, speaking of the curves on Jasmine, I never did see her ID.

I don't want to give away too much to other players who may or may not care to read the full text but it certainly is enlightening.

[dutch]

N. She presents as a major interest for Brad, but so far her character has been pretty limited. She hasn't really developed yet I guess. There is the back story with A. which helps. But without that her character would be flat and one dimensional. Of all the character so far she's the one I'd say I'm least interested in.

I find it interesting that as much as we sometimes clash on opinions we find the same character the least appealing thus far. I guess there is some truth to her story being underdeveloped. I thought that was just my opinion. And your as well, apparently.

I thought we might also agree on Faith being the most erotic lady in the game so far?

But don't worry, I'm sure it was just a fluke. If someone asked me what time it is I could say 20 minutes of eleven and you would tell me no it's 10:40!

[infiniteignorance]

I thought we might also agree on Faith being the most erotic lady in the game so far?

But don't worry, I'm sure it was just a fluke. If someone asked me what time it is I could say 20 minutes of eleven and you would tell me no it's 10:40!

I don't know if Faith is erotic or just slutty but, frankly, I could go for her either way.

What does that say about me?

[xsandman78]

Emily is the one I’ve found least interesting. There’s probably a bit of an element of me pushing back at the prominence coupled with less visual appeal.

I’m probably going to suffer as I like Natalie the most as character both in terms of looks and in terms characterization from club scene and cafe date. Was hoping based on initial presentation not that she’d be converted but that she was not as absolute than initial protestations and more open to feeling something for brad. whereas I was never interested in the whole lesbian threesome approach.