Favorite girl

[JFR]

I really think you are seeing more in that scene than is there. As I recall, and I played it several times trying to clear an achievement, there is really nothing in it about [spoiler]licking the cum off Emily's face.[/spoiler] She just asks him to [spoiler]kiss her with the cum still on her face.[/spoiler] There is a big difference in those interpretations. One shows her being aggressively dominant, the other just shows her expecting equal treatment. She starts that exchange in a playful manner and is surprised and a little pleased when he complies. I don't see any "dominatrix" in that exchange.

[OldCuteBoy]

...
I think a scene like the one between Emily, Faith and Brad in the bar on day one should be done later in the game, however instead of two girls and one guy it should be Brad, another guy and a girl, with the girl encouraging the two guys to "do things to each other".

First of all: You cann't get the BJ-Scene with Emi and Faith during the Emily-Corr-Path so Emily won't get this "shoot off" at the Toilette-Scenes! How you can see at Day 2 in the Office-Scene Emi tells something about her sexual experiences with Eddie.
[spoiler]In one Scene in the Office Emily tastes the Cum of Brad after a handjob and tells that she never gave a HJ to Eddie ...
Here she is as adventurous as in the night ago, where she tasted the same cum with a kiss by Faith ...
But this you cann't get during the Toilette-Pathes (Emily-Corr.-Path).
There, also like in the bar, if you jack off in Emi's mouth it's always a mood-killer and Emily looses Points ...[/spoiler]
You need to look at every Path on it's own, and not to mix up the scenes

I'd also greatly look forward to the explosion of angry comments by men on these forums demanding why you would put a scene like that in your game and the inevitable response by you of "Where was all this outrage by these same people when it was a man trying to seduce a homosexual woman?"

Like wolf said once in this forum: Natalie is not a homosexual, she is a bi, what Brad recognizes on D1 with different pathes.
[spoiler]At the Strip-club Bar with Candy you don't learn about Natalie that much as in the Natalie-Corr-Path and in the upcoming breakfast-scene [/spoiler]

I know from my own experience, it is hard to forget about all the things of another Path where you learned something about one of the datable women, but you need the different storylines to reach all daily Achievements and to get the Bonusscenes
There are different anchors which decide how the storyline goes on and we are just in the middle of Day2/7 so actually the different chars are coming up and you learn about the thinking of the "girls" and how to seduce or get them into a relationship

This game is that complex that the nuances make the difference and I think to figure out it all is a great and interesting challenge

greats OCB

[HolaMola]

I really think you are seeing more in that scene than is there. As I recall, and I played it several times trying to clear an achievement, there is really nothing in it about [spoiler]licking the cum off Emily's face.[/spoiler] She just asks him to [spoiler]kiss her with the cum still on her face.[/spoiler] There is a big difference in those interpretations. One shows her being aggressively dominant, the other just shows her expecting equal treatment. She starts that exchange in a playful manner and is surprised and a little pleased when he complies. I don't see any "dominatrix" in that exchange.

I don't have any advance knowledge of the story or plot so I very well could be wrong and I do admit I'm reading subtext into the scene. When I say the word dominatrix, I meant it more as a descriptor and indicator that she has the power in the relationship to influence Brad and get what she wants rather than than as her physically standing there at the end of the game in leather and carrying a whip. I believe that Emily's arc will be that she starts out as unsure of herself and eventually gain confidence. She'll start by exploring other people's fantasies until she figures herself out enough to know what she likes and dislikes. Right now she explores Brad's fantasies that she is simply not opposed to, not that she independently comes up with. Even when she sits at her desk with her legs open, it is with the hope that Brad will come over and do "something" (she's not exactly sure what). Right now she simply puts herself in situations that others can act upon. She flashes her panties at her desk hoping Brad will act upon it. She comes to the bar looking for Brad and drinks too much, again hoping that Brad will act upon the situation. She's the limiting factor of all scenes so far, not the motivator that makes them happen. When things get too much for her she says no and the scene stops.

What I'm hoping for is that while Brad asserts his fantasies on her now, by the end of the game she will be asserting hers on him and convincing him to go along with hers. I think that by the end of the game, the player should be the one limiting Emily and be the one saying no when they're uncomfortable (which means that scenes should evolve to the point where the player may be moved out of their comfort zone). By the end of the game Emily shouldn't be setting up a situation and desperately hope that someone picks up on it. She should have moved to the point where she can make her own fantasies happen without depending on someone else.

For the player, Emily's growing assertiveness is threatening. As she is increasingly able to come up with her own fantasies and fulfill them herself, she will need Brad less and less. The "making the good girl go bad" fantasy is essentially a power fantasy. You have to have a certain amount of power in the relationship to fulfill that fantasy. Right now Brad is playing all the angles with multiple girls, but what happens when Emily starts doing that as well? I think that would be a good thing to explore. The power of this relationship will slowly start to shift from Brad to Emily and although she may not tie Brad to the bed and whip him while wearing tight leathers (or she may, I have no idea what is going to happen), she will indeed have a significant amount of power.

[HolaMola]

...
I think a scene like the one between Emily, Faith and Brad in the bar on day one should be done later in the game, however instead of two girls and one guy it should be Brad, another guy and a girl, with the girl encouraging the two guys to "do things to each other".

First of all: You cann't get the BJ-Scene with Emi and Faith during the Emily-Corr-Path so Emily won't get this "shoot off" at the Toilette-Scenes! How you can see at Day 2 in the Office-Scene Emi tells something about her sexual experiences with Eddie.
[spoiler]In one Scene in the Office Emily tastes the Cum of Brad after a handjob and tells that she never gave a HJ to Eddie ...
Here she is as adventurous as in the night ago, where she tasted the same cum with a kiss by Faith ...
But this you cann't get during the Toilette-Pathes (Emily-Corr.-Path).
There, also like in the bar, if you jack off in Emi's mouth it's always a mood-killer and Emily looses Points ...[/spoiler]
You need to look at every Path on it's own, and not to mix up the scenes

I'd also greatly look forward to the explosion of angry comments by men on these forums demanding why you would put a scene like that in your game and the inevitable response by you of "Where was all this outrage by these same people when it was a man trying to seduce a homosexual woman?"

Like wolf said once in this forum: Natalie is not a homosexual, she is a bi, what Brad recognizes on D1 with different pathes.
[spoiler]At the Strip-club Bar with Candy you don't learn about Natalie that much as in the Natalie-Corr-Path and in the upcoming breakfast-scene [/spoiler]

I know from my own experience, it is hard to forget about all the things of another Path where you learned something about one of the datable women, but you need the different storylines to reach all daily Achievements and to get the Bonusscenes
There are different anchors which decide how the storyline goes on and we are just in the middle of Day2/7 so actually the different chars are coming up and you learn about the thinking of the "girls" and how to seduce or get them into a relationship

This game is that complex that the nuances make the difference and I think to figure out it all is a great and interesting challenge

greats OCB

Thanks for the response OCB. I think we're having a little difference of opinion on what I'm trying to express. You're right that in a single playthrough a player wouldn't get the experience and take away from the game what I hope they would. What I assume is that people will be playing this game multiple times (especially to get all those achievements to open those bonus scenes you mentioned). My hope is that when you do another playthrough, that the player will have an "aha" moment and see things from a different perspective than they did on a previous playthrough. Here's a quote from one of my previous posts that may give you some insight into what my thought process is.

So basically I think the non corruption path for Emily could be titled "Good Girl Gone Bad" and her corruption path will be "I've Created A Monster". What I feel would be most interesting about this is on a playthrough if you play the non corruption path, the story is you pushing her limits, but on an alternative playthrough on her corruption path the roles will be reversed, where you as the player are getting your limits pushed by her, so you're the one making decisions on things you may be unsure about.

As for Natalie, I did see that post you mentioned where it states that the characters are created with "degrees of homosexuality". I think we can both agree that Natalie is very close to the homosexual side of things on the bisexual spectrum in that she identifies herself as homosexual but has at times considered making exceptions. She makes that very clear during conversations with her. She states that she could "tolerate" a man in her bed to please her female partner. Brad is asking for an emotional investment from her and have an intimate relationship with her independent from another woman which is what she is very adverse to. In this regard, she is in fact homosexual regarding intimacy. She MAY be wiling to have sex with a man, but she is not willing to have an intimate emotional connection with one. She is effectively homosexual for the purposes of what Brad is asking from her.

[OldCuteBoy]

@HolaMola:
Sorry, all in all you seem to forget, that YOU are Brad
And Emily isn't the only one you can "play with" ...
Emily is a conservative, sexually unexperienced woman, you work with.
[spoiler]She is just exploring her sexuality (like the questions of Brad, if she is becoming gay, or the Toilette-Scenes ...[/spoiler]
Where this leads to, is impossible to say yet

Actually there are different pathes, which lead to different endings
How I told before, you need to look at every part on it's own!
In one path Emily perhaps will become "a slut", in the next one your girlfriend, in anotherone nothing than your buisiness-partner ... - YOUR decissions make the difference
The same happens with Natalie and Faith at the moment, and I think it won't go other ways with Azumi and Jasmine ... - To reduce the game onto only 1 path is a bit short
After 7 Days (1 Week) we will know, what will become eachones favourite path, but in the beginning of such a massive game you cann't expect to know everything

And also you should realize, this is only 1 week of a lifetime, so the end of the game will be only a part of the complete story ...
The game actually is abled to show you, how different decissions influance the future of a life, in a short- and long term

But all in all this is a Game and should bring you fun, I think, reality you will only find in your real life.
Games often fill up some dreams, let you think about a few things, but most, they are phantasy ...
And this game fulfills a lot of different phantasies

greats OCB

[OldCuteBoy]

...
As for Natalie, I did see that post you mentioned where it states that the characters are created with "degrees of homosexuality". I think we can both agree that Natalie is very close to the homosexual side of things on the bisexual spectrum in that she identifies herself as homosexual but has at times considered making exceptions. She makes that very clear during conversations with her. She states that she could "tolerate" a man in her bed to please her female partner. Brad is asking for an emotional investment from her and have an intimate relationship with her independent from another woman which is what she is very adverse to. In this regard, she is in fact homosexual regarding intimacy. She MAY be wiling to have sex with a man, but she is not willing to have an intimate emotional connection with one. She is effectively homosexual for the purposes of what Brad is asking from her.

If you go through the Diner-Scene with max. Points:

[spoiler]You have made Nat. come 2x - Also you learn, that she had boyfriends earlier and had a 3-some with Azumi and a guy, why the 2 girls broke ...
With this info's you know, that she cann't be that gay, she is thinking herself!
And you are wrong: emotional she is gone further with Brad, than sexual ... - She talks a lot to the other girls about him and is confused about her feelings.
The main Point at the private dance is, that "never a guy made her come!" - this is repeated in the BF-scene too and that are the signs, she is missing something in her sexuality, what she doesn't get by women ...[/spoiler]

I think you missed this

[d22249]

Brad is asking for an emotional investment from her and have an intimate relationship with her independent from another woman which is what she is very adverse to. In this regard, she is in fact homosexual regarding intimacy. She MAY be wiling to have sex with a man, but she is not willing to have an intimate emotional connection with one. She is effectively homosexual for the purposes of what Brad is asking from her.

Welcome to the boards HolaMola! It's nice to have various points of view.

I disagree with the statement in quotes. I think that in order for Natalie to have sex with Brad she will need to be emotionally invested.

In another section you were making an argument for "Emily the Dominatrix". I'm not sure that we're going to get there. Please note that the name of the game is "Brad's Erotic Week". I haven't seen anything yet in Brads character that would lead me to believe he would go for that, short of mind control. So if that's the kind of thing you want to see, get Serenthia or Azumi involved.

[JFR]

... I disagree with the statement in quotes. I think that in order for Natalie to have sex with Brad she will need to be emotionally invested. ...

+1. I think we have seen, in most of the various paths, that Natalie is already emotionally invested with Brad. She likes him and enjoys talking with him and spending time with him. Despite that, she is very conflicted by the thought of personal and sexual investment going forward. She has been convinced over the years that she is entirely lesbian, so the pleasure she takes in his company and the climaxes she has had with him (her first ever with a man) are very confusing for her. She may have to experiment with him to resolve that confusion or she may decide that is too threatening. We will have to see how that plays out. I suspect that, even if she decides not to risk it, it will be difficult for her because she does truly like him.

[OldCuteBoy]

But by the way ...
I think this is a nice discussion and shows how deep the story is read

Of course d22249 and JFR are right, there are so many hints included about Nat's relationship with Brad, and if you miss them all, why should Azumi be jealous at a man if Nat is a pure gay???
At day1 the Nat-Story would (or can) be over with the wrong steps ...
It could become interesting too, what will happen if you go the 0-Points path through - will there be a dead-end or do you get another chance to get one of them?
I think, we will get a lot of surprises during the next 5.5 days

[d22249]

why should Azumi be jealous at a man if Nat is a pure gay

That's actually a good question. Azumi can't read minds, even if she has other "mind" powers, (which I will neither confirm nor deny in this forum ). I'm pretty sure that Natalie believes she is lesbian at the beginning of the story. The most likely outcome of this game is that she never finds out that she is actually bi, though I think she is also monogamous. Is Azumi jealous of Natalie's relationship with Candy? Or does she "sense" something with Brad?

[Wolfschadowe]

Hi HolaMola! Welcome to the forum!

I really enjoyed your opinions and analysis, and especially the discussions that they generated.

I'd also greatly look forward to the explosion of angry comments by men on these forums demanding why you would put a scene like that in your game and the inevitable response by you of "Where was all this outrage by these same people when it was a man trying to seduce a homosexual woman?"

Yep, that's probably how I'd respond to a situation like that.

There are some things on some story-lines that will probably make some guys squirm a bit, but really, it's about the characters and the story. There's no attempt on my part to shove every deviant desire into the game.

You need to look at every Path on it's own, and not to mix up the scenes

This is only half true. The worst way to play BEW is to play one path over and over until mastering it, and then moving to the next path, playing that over and over, then the next path, etc... The game is impossible to enjoy that way, especially in later days. It becomes simply a matter of trial and error, and what is fun about that?

The way BEW is designed to be played, is to play a path, and most likely fail, and then play a different path. You'll usually learn something new on a different path. This is especially important as we move through the rest of day two and into the rest of the week. This could be done while focusing on one girl, or all of them, or anything in between. For example. There are 5 paths through the Wednesday Office scene. What that means is that there are 5 unique states to leave that scene from. If you always play for 10 points on Emily, then you will be missing out on 4 major paths of the game. They may not be quite evident now, but...just wait. <evil laugh time>

By the time we get to the Bar, there are 13 distinct, major paths. Strip club...well only one girl there (so far) so 6 major paths...across 3 girls, although that will increase with Azumi being added. By the time we finish the Thursday office, there are 21 distinct, major paths active, (pre azumi-jasmine). Each path is part of an overall ecosystem. Every path puts the women into different situations, which lets us learn more about them. Knowing how Emily and Faith can get along without Brad when he goes to the strip club helps us learn things about Emily that can help us on Faith-Emily paths, for example. So even though we may be following a Natalie path by going to the strip club, we still learn something a about Emily too.

So...back to OCB's statement. It's half true because of something that D&D Geeks like me understand well, Player Knowledge vs. Character Knowledge. When playing a path, remembering character knowledge is important, (What does Brad actually know for this playthrough) but to make important decisions in the game, player knowledge is key (What do we know about the woman, what does she really like? What does she think she wants, versus what she doesn't know that she wants, versus what she doesn't know that she hates?" Multiple play-through's across multiple paths give us many of these answers, and make some of the harder decisions clear. Every decision the girls make in the game is backed up by their characterization, personal story, and history. If I can't justify their reaction, It never makes the game.

[palinathas]

Multiple play-through's across multiple paths give us many of these answers, and make some of the harder decisions clear. Every decision the girls make in the game is backed up by their characterization, personal story, and history. If I can't justify their reaction, It never makes the game.

And this, quite simply, is why I enjoy this game so much, and really want to see what happens in the rest of it. Well done so far, good sir!

[OldCuteBoy]

...

You need to look at every Path on it's own, and not to mix up the scenes

This is only half true. The worst way to play BEW is to play one path over and over until mastering it, and then moving to the next path, playing that over and over, then the next path, etc... The game is impossible to enjoy that way, especially in later days. It becomes simply a matter of trial and error, and what is fun about that?
...

What I wanted to say with this comment was, that the BJ-Scene in the Bar happens in another path, then the BJ in the Toilette-Scene on D2
So the knowledge of Brad, that Emily didn't ever taste any cum before, cann't be there and that pulls the things togethter
The girl is the same and her character is too, but the knowledge of their "likes and unlikes" is always different, path by path ...
So it is important for your choices, not to mix up the already known likes of the different pathes.
Actually I have per scene (Bar and Stripclub) on Day1 15-20 different savings, to be abled to go through in different ways or to restart the game at special points which could be needed with the upcoming Episodes

[spoiler]For example the new way which will come up with the Jasmine-Path on D2 in the office after the Dead-End.
At the moment you cann't decide, what way of D1 (beginning at the office with Emily flirting or not ...) will bring which success in future [/spoiler]

I think I was a bit misunderstood with my posting
greats
OCB

[VanSinn]

I think my favorite is Emily, but it's very close between her and Natalie. I actually prefer Emily's path if Brad chooses to go to the Strip Club on Wednesday evening, rather than the bar. Hearing her speak about the events of the evening (if Brad wasn't present) shows us that she discovers things about herself independent of his involvement. It's not Brad leading her down that path, she finds it for herself, and that shows a level of character development rarely (if ever) seen in erotic gaming. While there is definitely an element of fantasy fulfillment within the game (hey, it's an erotic game!) there is definitely more going on, and characters are their own persons, rather than simply something to grant the aforementioned fantasy fulfillment.

Natalie is very believable as a highly female-centric bisexual who's either been hurt by men in the past or hasn't found a "good" one (and believe me, as a guy I know there are way too few "good" ones. Plenty of "decent" ones who can learn to be "good" as they get older, but few younger "good" guys). Her interactions with Brad show at least a fair amount of interest, even if she doesn't seem to understand it all herself, and the conversation in the Diner shows her to be surprised (and pleasantly so!) by her reactions to him in the club. There's still hesitation there, understandably so if my read on her background is moderately accurate, which shows, again, that she's her own person. Influenced, perhaps, by Brad's involvement, but his actions do not define her character, as happens in so many other similar games.

All in all, a very, VERY enjoyable game so far, and I can't wait to see what happens during the various dates on Thursday evening!

[JFR]

Welcome aboard. Some nice thoughts. I think we all are waiting, a bit impatiently of course, for the next episode.